The Following is an excerpt from an interview published in one of my books, ‘“Suddenly God Changed Everything.”

Interview Three: Dennis Balcombe

The Father of a Movement that is Changing China

Who is Dennis Balcombe?

Dennis Balcombe is likely best known as the Father of the House Church for all of China. He heard God calling him as a teenager and struggled with that call at first. Dennis is an author of many articles and best known for two books detailing the move of God in China for the past 40 years, One Journey One Nation: Autobiography of Dennis Balcombe Missionary to China and China's Opening Door: Incredible Stories of the Holy Spirit at Work in One of the Greatest Revivals in Christianity.

He has appeared on many interviews for television, magazines, and documentaries. He has been a missionary to China traveling extensively for over 40 years throughout all of China. He has been a spokesman for the church in China for decades. He has testified to the US Congress and the British House of Lords on the many years of persecution, imprisonment, and even torture of Christians within China. Liberties and rights can be easily and frequently stripped away and abuse is rarely challenged.

In 1969 He founded the Revival Christian Church in Hong Kong and has just recently passed that baton on to his Chinese born son-in-law and daughter to take it forward for the next 40 years, rcmi.wordpress.com. Dennis continues to plant churches, teach and train pastors, travelling and ministering in China and internationally.

Dennis reports now that many things have changed and many relationships have been improved for the Christians in China, but there is still much to be done. To understand the kind of thing that Dennis has faced for 40 years, I give a quote from Charisma Magazine in an article just 3 years ago where the headlines read as follows:

“US Church Leader Dennis Balcombe Under

House Arrest in China” 10:30AM E DT 4/22/2013 Melanie

Korb

“Dennis Balcombe, a wellknown U.S. church leader who ministers in China, was placed under house arrest Saturday, China Aid has learned. Balcombe was detained following a raid on a house-church revival

meeting, and his current whereabouts are unknown.

Also in Henan province, seven house-church leaders in Pingdingshan have been sentenced to prison terms ranging from 3 to 7 1/2 years on cult charges.

In Nanyang, the raid by police, Domestic Security Protection agents and officials from the Religious Affairs Bureau occurred Saturday morning, just hours after the start of what had been planned as a three-day revival meeting, with attendees from the city of Wenzhou and the provinces of Hubei and Henan, among other places.”

Reading this again from three years ago brings back many memories of Dennis sharing over the years of all his ministry and experiences in China. Dennis was never one to shy away from the action and has always been known for taking the Gospel into those forbidden areas. He is a figure of controversy to many, but to millions he is a towering figure of fearless determination to bring the presence of God to all the people of China.

I remember Dennis from 30 years ago when I first met him. He was on furlough for a short time and visiting his home church, Shiloh Christian Fellowship, now Shiloh Church of Oakland, California. It was my first week of having joined the church, and I was fresh off of the staff at a large denominational church.

He had just started the 6 AM prayer. I was determined to be at every meeting. I still remember him praying at the top of his voice just inches away from my face each morning. He prayed mostly in Cantonese, I believe. One thing Dennis did for me is he helped me to remove my inhibition at praying in the Spirit aloud and praying with confidence. He literally primed my pump and unstopped my well. My wife, daughters, and now granddaughters and I have not ceased praying intercessory prayer, deliverance, and prophecies over people ever since.

In addition to his many stories of all the miracles in ministry throughout China, I caught a Spirit of bold evangelism that would stay with me for a lifetime. This is just who Dennis Balcombe is. He has sustained a solitary message for all these years. The “people in China need the Word and the Holy Spirit.”

Dennis’ ministry has been responsible for mobilizing tens of thousands of people to hand carry millions of Bibles into China. They were called “donkeys for Jesus” and were the platform for placing millions of Bibles into the hands of believers and nonbelievers, bringing literally millions to Jesus.

In this interview you will see the real person as he walked through real questions and the challenges which we all face. You will see how the Spirit of God speaking to him with a verbal voice, that still small voice, the voice of circumstances, and the voice of God through other believers, has both changed and shaped him and impacted China for many future generations to come.

Interview with Dennis Balcombe

I love Dennis. His enthusiasm is contagious. Before I could begin the interview, he was so excited to catch me up on all that has been going on. We met at Bethel Church in Redding, California where I caught him between his teaching sessions at their Bethel School of Ministry.

Dennis B- Henan is the largest province right now, the most Christians, the greatest persecution, and the most miracles, but also it has the most cults because of the lack of good teaching of the word of God. The Eastern Lightning cult has a woman Christ. They are from Henan. They are simple people, who suffer a lot for their faith. So anyhow, Henan is where the greatest revival has been. We have a video about our work that is in English and Chinese.

People want to subsidize or support a ministry like that because we don't sell anything. We don't ever sell things

…The greatest danger to the church in China is the anti-Charismatic theology. that we do in our ministry because it will

get us in trouble, you know. It's just too

complicated. But we help many, many ministries that just want to make their books available to the Chinese people. We have a distribution network, and we have the contacts. We can print it, and make sure it is in very good Chinese. We need good teaching in China. We come against false teaching and I tell people that the greatest problem in China is not the communist party. It is not persecution, though there is a lot of persecution. It’s anticharismatic theology that is coming in and trying to destroy the work of revival,

We've taken in maybe 12 million bibles and millions of other books. We have this book called The Shepherds Staff.

Now one thing I want to mention is, the greatest danger to the church in China is the anti-Charismatic theology. In America you have John McArthur, who is very well known even in China, and of course a few other people.

Now in this particular book, there is a whole chapter that deals with the so called ‘cessation theory’, not only theologically but the testimony. There's never been a period of time throughout church history that there haven't been at least some people that have had the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues, healed the sick and raised the dead - like the Huguenots.

Going back, even some of the reformers, some of the very famous missionaries, you know, Finney, had experience with the Holy Spirit. But the evangelicals will not recognize this. They think this is some last day deception. So, this, book is very good. (The Shepherds Staff) It is good theology, everything about how to heal the sick, worship, praise, you know, basic Christian doctrine. People need to know of course, we're not just some Charismatic stuff.

We have taken in 12 million Bibles, 10's of thousands of these books, and other books that teach on the Holy Spirit, as well as I've spent the last 30 out of 37 years that China has been open, in China. We prayed for thousands, tens of thousands to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. And you know, when one receives the Holy Spirit, he prays for other people. So, that's what we've been doing.

Question 1: Dennis M - Tell me, how did your faith walk begin?

Dennis B - Well, I was brought up in a traditional Methodist Church. I prayed every night, went to church and Sunday School every Sunday. When I was 16 years old I went to a Spirit filled church, an Assembly of God Church. I heard people speak in tongues, you know, very clear, not some of these just lala baba that you hear today. They were very clear languages, French and Hebrew, and that had a tremendous impression on me as well. I always heard about people being healed. I don't know if I was born again, but I had been praying for all my life. I was 16 years old and the Lord spoke to me very clearly, “I want you to preach the Gospel.” I just heard it so clearly inside.

Dennis M - An audible voice?

Dennis B - It was almost like an audible voice. It was very clear, you know, and I had never heard Him speak to me before, never. This was the first time in my life.

Dennis M – Wow, at 16!

Dennis B – Yeah, I was 16 years old. “I want you to be a minister, to preach Gospel.” So, I remember I was living in Pomona, CA, and we had a big family. I have 4 sisters and 2 brothers. In fact, this Monday I'm going to go and have a family reunion.

Our parents have gone to be with the Lord, but all the siblings are still alive, and their children and grandchildren, so we're going to get together. So, we lived in this house and I needed to go outside to pray because there wasn't a place to pray with this big family. No place to pray inside, so I walked up and down the street.

I told the Lord, “I will not preach the Gospel. I will serve you, I will go to church, but I want to be a scientist. I want to be a physicist.” That was my goal. Then I thought, I am not a very extroverted person. I am not a speaker, anyhow I want to be a scientist. Why won't you let me do that? But the Lord spoke to me literally, almost every night for 3 months. I couldn't sleep. You know, you don't hear of young guys 16 years old having insomnia. But I couldn't sleep.

I went back to that church, the second time, because it was a long way from where we lived. My friend was a school mate who invited me to the church, you know, and his father had a car. The church was in El Monte. To go to El Monte was a good hour drive, maybe a 45 minute drive, so we got there late and the service had been going on for some time.

The Pastor’s wife was leading the songs, and she said, “There's no anointing. I don't think this is the right song to sing.” You know, they want to be in the Holy Spirit, so they went to another song. You know, today we plan everything out beforehand. Those days they wanted the Holy Spirit to lead.

Dennis M - That was an exceptional church for that time.

Dennis B - A very exceptional church, very much in service to God. She sang another song, I forget the song of course. So she said, “Nope, that's not the problem, it's not the song.” She said, “The Lord told me there is a young man here that 3 months ago the Lord called you to the ministry, and it's true, but you have been refusing to submit. We're not going to go on with the service until you repent. We're not going to sing any more songs. The Pastor is not going to preach, the choir is not going to sing. We’re not going to take the offering, nothing until you repent. You know who you are, and I know who you are. And you know I am not going to embarrass you. You need to make your own decision.”

So, I thought, I am stopping this whole service, you know, there's like 150 people there. So I went forward and prayed. As I began to pray, many people came to pray. The service began at 11, this was 11:30 or 11:35, and we prayed until 1 pm. Everybody's praying and the Pastor never preached, the choir never sang, they didn't take the offering, which is a miracle for a church you know. We were in a big prayer meeting because the church honored the Holy Spirit.

I'm sure other people had needs. I was truly born again and so I knew that I would be a preacher. I began the next day in school. I got up in every class and told the people, “Today the Lord called me and I'm going to share the Gospel.” I first was in orchestra. I played the clarinet, and so I shared the Lord. I didn't know that you couldn't have religion in schools. Maybe that was before those laws was enacted, that was 1961. Later on, I started a fellowship and everything, you know. Later, at the church, I was baptized in water.

By then I had already lead someone to the Lord. A guy that played the saxophone at a football matchup. So, I began right away preaching the Gospel. But I knew that I couldn't stay in America. I knew that I must go overseas because there are so many churches in America. Why would I stay in America? So I said, “Lord I must be a missionary, I just know this in my heart.” I didn't hear the Lord say this, but it's just illogical. There are people all over the world that don't know Jesus, and there are churches here and even on the radio.

TV was just coming in with Gospel on it. So, I said “Lord, where should I go?” And I thought about Africa. I thought about India, all the different places that there are no witnesses. Then one day I am reading an encyclopedia. I was preparing for school - I was a very studious student, I got good grades and everything - and there's an article on China.

A picture of a young man in this article on China and that was before the internet. It was an encyclopedia, and I heard the Lord say very clearly, “I want you to go to the Peoples Republic of China, called Red China, and take this Gospel to the young man and to all the people in China.” It was so very clear. I knew I was called to China, but it was illogical, so if I told anybody they would laugh. Well, that was in the 60’s. I graduated high school, and then I went to Southern California College in Costa Mesa. That's the Assembly of God Bible School.

However, one day there was a guy that came back to the Bible school. He came back from a meeting and his face was like an angel. We could see that something had happened to him and we said, “What happened?” And he said “You would not believe.

I will not even tell you. It's like in another world. It's revival!” He'd been to this church called Bethany Chapel. David Schoch was the Pastor. It is was an independent local church. I was in the Assembly of God at the time. At the time, we felt it was a cult and you shouldn't go to this church. There was probably about 15 of us students. We went to the church and had to see what was going on.

There was this one student, his name was Brian Bailey. He later became a Pastor. I met him in New Zealand a few years ago. However, at the meeting were these prophets that called us up one by one and told us everything about the call of God on our lives; the weaknesses, the strengths. They couldn't know. It's the first time we'd been there. That’s how I knew this was true.

Later on in another presbytery, David Schoch and the presbytery confirmed that I would be going to Red China, that God would open the doors to Red China. So you see, God spoke so very clearly. In those years, there were probably 8-10 different people that gave me similar prophesies, that I would go to China. At the time, it didn’t make any sense because China was a closed nation, not an open nation at all.

This is how the Lord moved in my life, and confirmed how he was speaking. First of all, the Lord spoke to me as I was praying, and sometimes when I was not praying a word from the Lord just came. Then secondly, as confirmation through the prophetic ministry as a prophecy.

Question 2: Dennis M - In your life you have faced challenges and many have stretched your belief in God, and you have been talking about this. Or how God was moving in your life in a particular way and then stretched you beyond belief. Is there another time you've gotten stretched beyond the normal? You were going on one path and then, is there another time God stretched you beyond that?

Dennis B - Well, basically since God called me, I just made a decision to give my life to the Lord. I have been faithful to that, and I have been faithful to the Lord, you know. There is what we call a crises of the faith, not to the degree that I would deny my faith, or even the church or even say anything negative about the Lord. But there's a lot of questions that even now I don't have the answers for.

Like the main thing, it's in the book of Job. Why do Christians suffer? Why do you have a government like North Korea? Generation after generation you have this one man or one family, this group of people that determine the eternal destiny of this group of people which is damnation and hell for literally generations and generations of North Koreans?

Why do you have the ISIS state? You know they’re killing Christians. In China, you have so many that died for their faith. If you read in this particular book, “Henan, the Galilee of China”, you will see at the end some statistics about Christians in different provinces. Another book this man put out was “The Martyrs of China.” He estimated some 250 thousand believers in Jesus Christ have been murdered in China for preaching the Gospel. In the year 1900 alone, in just a matter of a few months, 46,000 Christians and 266 missionaries were beheaded. That was the Boxer Rebellion.

Before the Boxer Rebellion there was the Christian Revolution. That particular revolution caused a war and 20 million people died. More people died in this “Heavenly Peace Revolution” in 1865 than died in World War 1! People said WW1 was the War of Wars but Americans don't know history.

The biggest war before that time was the War of the Heavenly Peace Revolution. More people died then than in WW1 and most of them were Christians. In the Heavenly Peace Revolution, they wanted to build up a kingdom called the Heavenly Peace Kingdom of China. They tried to overthrow the dynasty, and actually it was Europeans, the British people and others, who assisted the Chinese government to defeat this Christian Revolution.

Dennis M - Not to be confused with the Kingdom of God that Jesus is talking about?

Dennis B - Oh, no, no. They wanted to build a heavenly kingdom that was based on the Bible. The reason was because the guy got converted and baptized but he didn't have good teaching. He had a lot of visions about God and everything but, you see, this whole rebellion wanted China to become a Christian nation.

The British, of course, did not want China to become a Christian nation because they would lose their lucrative opium trade. So the British and the foreign powers sent in military advisors and weapons, money to help the government put down the Christian revolution. Even if it was a cult, it was at least Christian, you know. They believed that Jesus was the son of God.

These things make me wonder, why do these things happen? When you look at this, the Cultural Revolution, we just celebrated the 50th anniversary of it just last week. According to official records, 2.8 million people were murdered. But probably 10-20 million people were murdered. So, we live in Asia where there is tremendous suffering and death and persecution of Christians. And even in India now, you know, Christians not willing to submit have been martyred. In Indonesia over a thousand churches have been burned, hundreds of Christians were killed. Christian women were raped. The question is, “Why do these things happen?”

Yet, when you look over the long period, you can see the answer, because, “all things work together for good, for those that love the Lord and are called according to His purpose.” Now like Joseph said, “You meant this for evil, but God meant this for good”. So, you can compare Taiwan with China. Taiwan is completely free, freedom of religion, and with democracy. But even percentage wise, the number of Christians there is much less than in China. And it's full of idols. In Taiwan there are idols everywhere. I mean Buddhism has been in a major revival for decades. Christianity is growing good, but it isn't anything like China. So, the persecution purges the church.

We don't understand, but sometimes God allows these things. Isaiah 48:10 says, “See, I have refined you, though not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.” or something like that. Sometimes these things are so difficult to understand. It has never been to a place that I have denied my faith, but sometimes I can't explain it.

And in America, we let them preach a great revival and many millions are getting saved, but you don't know about all the people that are suffering around the world for their faith. Then we think people just don't care.

Dennis M - How does that happen? How entitled we must feel thinking, “If we are doing everything right, then things should go right for us, and we should not suffer.” And if we have a little bit of trouble, or any trouble at all, then God is letting us down or something.

Dennis B - Theologically then, this causes me to question this whole rapture theory that we're going to be taken at tribulation. You can't tell the people of China that!

Dennis M - They think they’re going through tribulation right now. If they read Revelation they are going to think they are in the middle of it.

Dennis B – Yes, so these are some things that are sometimes challenging to both your personal faith and your theological belief, you know. Yet, we're preaching the truth and we're not as successful in the same way as big churches you can see. It's because, they preach what people want to hear, not what the bible says.

We have been called to preach the Gospel, you and me. Heal the sick, and cast out devils. The more people in a particular location that believe in Jesus, the less power those principalities will have over that location. However, things like digging wells, and building hospitals, are also part of it. They’re also helping people, and that's part of it. We have the Red Cross and World Vision, and their social Gospel, but that's the result of the Gospel, right? You don't just do away with that. It's not just getting saved. You need to help them and teach them, things like that.

Question 3: Dennis M - In your life, you had to have made some major shifts. Can you recall any one such shifting in which you were challenged to change your whole way of thinking and some area of prejudice? Peter had a prejudice toward Gentiles, Paul toward Christians and a belief in God as judgmental and not forgiving, and Jonah hated the Ninevites. At times, we are even challenged about our preconceived ideas about God Himself and He challenges on those at times too. Has He ever done so with you?

Dennis B - I never had a prejudice towards people. I love Chinese, I love black people. I go to Africa 5-6 times a year, you know. Shiloh is probably more black now than it is white. And so I have never had any racial prejudice in my life at all. From my background, we never had that.

But in China, we had a situation. We had the House Church Movement and the Three Self-Church which is the official Christian church of China. So when China opened, we were going to the House Church only. You see, the Three Self-Church was completely controlled by the government. They didn't want our bible or preaching. The most we could do was attend their church and they would spot us as a missionary and the police would follow us. So, we didn't want to go to their churches.

You probably heard of the guy, Wang Mingdao. He was part of the House Churches. He's very well known. He spent 28 years in prison for refusing to join the Three Self-Church and be one of their Pastors. If he did, then he wouldn't be able to preach on any of the doctrines like the resurrection, the second coming and heaven and hell. They’re basically teaching communist theology. He refused and stood firm in his faith and was imprisoned for it.

So, we used to have a saying we called, “the churches”. The Babylon Church, the Harlot Church, or the Sanhedrin Church, or whatever, all these bad terms. We had nothing to do with them, and the people I worked with, all the House Churches, you do two things. How to get non-Christians saved or get the Christians in the Three Self-Church to leave and join the House Church. It is the same thing.

I had a real oppression from them. Then around 1995, I couldn't go to China for several years. During that time, there was a Three Self Pastor that was Spirit filled. He helped me to clear my name. I met with the police, and when I went back they said, “Why aren't you with the Three Self-Church?” I said, “Because their doctrine is so different. It's nothing political. Why would I be a Mormon or a Catholic?” They said to me, “Well you should go and see how their doctrines are.”

This particular Pastor, he said, “I am Spirit filled just like you, and I have also been persecuted, also by the communists, because I am Spirit filled and preaching the Gospel.” So, he opened the door and I went there and preached, and I took people like Che Ahn and many other people to preach there.

So, now I am doing a lot of preaching at the Three Self-Church. There are still some really liberal people there. They wouldn't invite me to preach; they wouldn't even like to be with me. Like their Southern Baptist friends because they know I'm going to pray for people to receive the Holy Spirit.

There are a lot of Christians however, that are just the opposite. Some of these have caused me a lot of real big problems in China because they feel by working with the Three Self-Church I would be betraying the House Church. They are saying “Balcombe, how could you dare go to this church. You’re betraying us.” One of the leading Pastors, who passed away a few years ago, said even “If you go to the Three Self-Church you’re not saved. You know you’re going to go to hell.”

So, I am not only going, I am preaching, so now I am actually a voice for the Three Self-Church and the House Church. Not as an organization but for the truth, because you cannot categorize anybody.

The problem now isn’t government policy, because the government doesn’t really care. If you don't get involved in politics, or talk about independence, you can preach whatever you want. Of course, they will monitor everything. But they don't care about various doctrines. The communists now don't care if you believe Jesus rose from the dead. They did at one time because they didn't want anything supernatural. Now the main thing is that you obey the laws. They won’t get involved with doctrine if we don't get involved with politics. But, it depends on the leadership of the church.

Some of these leaders, like the Union Theological Seminaries, like the Golden Gate Seminary, they don't believe in the Holy Spirit. So those churches preach a certain doctrine. They wouldn't want me to go to them, but others, we have ladies in Hong Kong, and they want to attend our meeting, so they log onto our meetings on the internet.

Dennis M - It comes back to the same issue, this issue of the Holy

Spirit.

Dennis B- It is really what you believe about the Holy Spirit that determines everything, you know.

There was a major meeting last week in Hong Kong and I was invited to speak about China ministries to about 200 people. They were all the leading people from China, all the major ministries working in China. Rev. David Wong, and he is very close to the late Peter Wagner.

I spoke about taking bibles in. These are all the leading evangelicals, many, many groups. OMF and everybody. They asked, “What is the greatest need in China?” And I said, “We have a lot of bibles, and a lot of good teachers, but we need the Holy Spirit. We need people filled with the Holy Spirit.” This kind of shocked them because these guys are out there with schematics and all their plans, and seminaries, and bible training, giving people degrees, and all that kind of stuff. Then I come out and say, “We need the

Holy Spirit.” And you know, I think

Without the Holy Spirit many recognize that it's true. nothing can happen.

Without the Holy Spirit nothing can happen.

Interview Six: Karen Crook

The Servant’s Heart Giving Hope and Healing Who is Karen Crook?

Karen grew up as the third child of six. She developed a low self-esteem yet desired to feel loved and accepted. Karen was raised a Catholic and at the age of 14 attended an Assembly of God Church with a friend from school. That night Karen was lead to the Lord but with no follow-up and no

explanation. She did not understand the transforming experience she had in becoming “born again”.

At the age of 16 she found herself pregnant and getting married. She had to drop out of school at the start her senior year due to the birth of her first child. It took 11 years to realize she was in an abusive marriage and find the strength to leave, taking 3 children with her. Three years later she married again, this time it was even more abusive, 14 months later she ended the marriage.

Believing that something was wrong with her and that somehow, she was attracting the wrong kind of men, she starting working on her issues of abandonment, rejection, lowself-esteem and lack of self-worth. It took over 17 years to even start believing she was a woman of value that could and deserved to be respected.

During this time, she worked for the Department of Social

Services, first for Solano County, CA. After 11 years of case management she moved over to Contra Costa County, CA for 14 years as a case manager, the last 11 years as a facilitator, teaching life and employment skills to adults on aid. It was much easier for her to teach these life skills and believe them for others, than for herself.

Karen also led a Single Women's Ministry for the Lighthouse Church in Fairfield, CA and became a Licensed Minister with Grace International Fellowship and Ministries in 1996.

In March of 2009, she met for the second time, William (Bill) Crook. Their meeting was a fulfillment of prophecy and the greatest blessing of her life. She learned a great deal about real love, acceptance, personal value and self-respect. Bill and Karen had a wonderful marriage but far too short for her liking. Bill became very ill just 15 months after they married and together they struggled with multiple doctor visits and hospitalizations.

Bill unexpectedly took a turn for the worse just 8 months after Karen retired and 16 days before they were to move to Paradise, CA. Bill died just 5 years 5 months and 25 days after they married but not before making a huge impact on her life. Working through the profound grief, thoughts of suicide and the sudden life changing events, Karen was able to grab hold of Jesus like never before and is determined to not let go.

Karen is currently living in Paradise, CA, attends church at Jubilee on the Ridge in Paradise and is loving life with family and friends.

Today, Karen reaches out through ministry in a Women's Bible Study to encourage and assist others in overcoming past hurts, abuse, and many other issues that can hold one back from believing that God really does have a purpose and a destination for each and every one of us.

Karen is able to have hope in tomorrow, find the joy in today and a determination to walk through this life with Pride, Conviction and Value.

Interview with Karen Crook

Question 1: Dennis - Please tell me briefly how your faith walk began?

Karen – It began as a teenager. I was about 14 years old in Junior High. There was a girl in my classes that was not befriended by anybody. Even though people thought she was weird, I liked her. One day she asked me to go to church with her on a Wednesday night. So, with my parent’s permission I went. It was an Assembly of God Church in San Pablo, CA. They had a guest speaker that night and after the service he did an alter call. I was pulled forward somehow. No one was pulling on me, but it was just like there was no way that I could not go forward. All I remember was walking to the front of the church, getting on my knees and I started crying. He said, “Repeat after me…”, so I did. No one ever explained to me what had happened.

About 3 years later, in High School, I started dating a young man. He would eventually become my first husband. It was then that I realized what had happened. Nobody followed up, nobody told me anything. I left the Catholic Church after I married my first husband and I joined the Assembly of God. That is when I really had a revelation of what had happened and I started my walk with the Lord.

Dennis - So it was like God started something then and it took a while for you to realize what all that was?

Karen - Yes, absolutely, quite a while.

Question 2: Dennis - In your life you have undoubtedly faced many challenges which have caused you to be stretched in the area of belief about God or the way in which God was moving in your life and the world around you.

Can you recall a specific time that you were challenged like Peter was the day he saw the vision of the sheets and then was directed by God to release the Holy Spirit to the Gentiles?

Karen - Most recently for me was just a year ago last March 2015. Just a month after my husband passed, I went to a women's meeting here in here in Paradise, California. The speaker came to me, pulled me out of the congregation and said, “God wants me to tell you, that He has a plan.” She continued saying that, “I needed to make some lifestyle changes and that the roses would bloom again.”

Dennis - That was in March of last year?

Karen - One month after my husband passed. She asked me if I understood what that meant and told me to pray about it and God will tell me.

Dennis -You had a promise from the Lord!

Karen – Yes, so I immediately started praying, “Lord what are lifestyles, what are the lifestyles I need to change?” For a long time, it seemed as though I was getting nothing. Suddenly I realized this was how I felt about myself. I began to realize that I need to stop thinking of myself as a disabled person. You see, I have very severe, almost crippling arthritis. It’s in both of my feet. Walking and being on my feet for long periods of time is extremely painful. But then the Lord spoke to me telling me, “Stop thinking of yourself as disabled.” For me this was going to be a real lifestyle change. A new way of thinking about myself and what I was believing I could or could not do in my life.

Then it was taking off my wedding ring. I finally took it off just 10 months after my husband passed. Although it was difficult to do, I knew this too was a lifestyle change that needed to happen.

Dennis - It had to do with how you were seeing your life internally?

Karen – Yes.

Dennis - So, it was your identity, both seeing yourself and portraying yourself as married instead of widowed and single?

Karen - Yes, and so I finally took it off. It took the Lord awhile to get me to take it off. When I finally took it off, there was a definite weight difference.

Dennis - When did the Lord tell you to take them off?

Karen - It was in the month of December. He started to tell me to “Take off your wedding rings, take off your wedding rings.” At first I thought, Ok, I will take them off in February at the one year anniversary of my husband’s death. That would have been February 3rd.

Then, I kept hearing the Lord saying to me, “Take off your wedding rings! Take off your wedding rings.” So then, I said I would take them off January 1st, I would start the New Year off fresh. Then, again I heard, “Take of your wedding ring, take of your wedding ring.” So, I finally took them off on December 26th, 2015. There was an actual weight difference in my body.

It was noticeable. There was also a difference of how I felt about myself.

Dennis - You look different now here in May, than when we saw you in, what, August of last year, just four months before you took the rings off.

Karen – Yes, from last August, I feel very different. My joy for living is back. My being able to be excited about tomorrow and working with people and for people, is back. All of February, since my husband died on the 3rd, of 2015, life was all about pain. It was nothing but hurt.

Dennis - When you came to the conference at Glory of Zion, you were receiving a lot of ministry. A lot of healing ministry happened then. And it was like a lot of salve was being applied. But still, a lot of healing needed to be done. There was a shifting that began to happen. Now you are talking about feeling lighter and things are changing, God is telling you to do some more things?

Karen - Yes in February, at the one year mark of my husband’s death, I was in prayer and seeking the Lord. I remember my Pastor's wife being here at my home as we were leading a support group for women. This is for women who have gone through traumatic experiences and are needing healing and strength to overcome their different situations.

This particular day, it was an unusual thing. After the meeting she and I were the only two still here. Everyone had to leave quickly for different reasons and I just started pouring out my heart. I would cry and she would pray, and I cried and she prayed for 2 1/2 hours. I felt a difference and even she said that, “The Lord has broken it off of you, this day. There's a new beginning, a new start.”

That February, I heard for the first time a song on KLOVE by Danny Gokey. The song was, 'Tell your Heart to Beat Again'. When I heard that song, it was the Lord telling me, “You have mourned well, you have grieved well, and it is time to live again.” It really broke me. The grief, the mourning, the feeling that life was just existing, it ended. It broke at that point. Now there is a true excitement. Something is bubbling up inside of me. I don't understand it all.

Dennis - Which is crazy because of all that you went through. You weren’t just broken over a loved one dying. You had waited for him for many years. You felt God had spoken to you to wait for him, and you waited. Then everything in your relationship with Bill came about just as the Lord had said. Tell me about that, how your relationship began with Bill. How many years did you wait? You said 17 years?

Karen - He was a long-time friend of Paul and Sherryl Dixon's. And after he got out of prison he just kind of disappeared from the world because he was totally ashamed of himself. But, he started a church down in the Riverside area at a truck stop. There was a point that Paul had invited him to speak to the congregation at our church in Fairfield. That is the night I met him. Instantly, I was attracted to him. I just knew that there was something incredibly special about him. After that night, he went back to Riverside and was gone for a few months, and then moved to Fairfield. For about four months we did a lot of ministry work together. He preached out at the Oakland Homeless Mission, we went up to Loaves and Fishes in Sacramento. I had a prayer ministry at Channel 42 in Concord and I was able to get him an interview on the television program. We did a lot of things together and I felt things were developing in our relationship.

Then he got mad at somebody and said “I’m out of here.” He soon left and went to Oregon. We did not see or speak to each other for 17 years. Then Sherryl Dixon passed away and it was at her funeral that I saw him again. I knew instantly who he was and the fulfillment of a prophetic word that started coming together right then and there. I had been given a prophecy seven years before that I would marry again, that I would know him when I saw him. The word said that I would not “zig or zag, not turn to the right or left and he would be to me, loving, kind, supportive, encouraging, and nurturing.” Just an incredible list of things that this husband would be to me.

I had prayed that, when whoever this man was, when he came into my life, that I would be with friends and that someone would say, “That's him.” At the start of Sherryl's funeral service I had just exited the kitchen, as I was helping prepare the meal following the services.

I looked across the room of about 300-400 hundred people and I saw the back of Bill. I walked straight to him. I did not step to the right or the left. I did not have to zig or zag around anybody. I walked a beeline straight to him.

After the service he asked me to walk him out to his car and I did. We exchanged phone numbers and he went on his way. As I went back into the building a friend call me to his table and asked me, “That guy, is he married?”, I said 'Bill Crook? No, he's not married'. He said 'ok' with a big ol'-grin on his face.

I said, “James, what are you thinking?” He said, “You know, what I am thinking.” I said, “James Housler, you better start talking and start talking fast.” He said, “That's him.” There is no way on this earth that he could have known that I had prayed that. I had never told anyone.

Dennis - After everything that everybody said to you that day, that one person made a point to say, “That's him.”

Karen - There is no way on this earth that James could have known that I prayed that. Because no one knew I prayed that, no one. I had 5 confirmations in the next 2 weeks that Bill was the one that God was talking about. I even called James and said “Why did you say that? What made you say that?” He said “I don't know, I just did.” And I told him of the other 4 confirmations that I had just gotten and he said, “God wants you to stop questioning Him and, by the way, congratulations.” Bill and I married 4 1/2 months later.

Dennis - Wow, that’s so perfectly beautiful. How long where you guys together? 5-7 years?

Karen – Five and a half years. Bill got seriously sick just 15 months after we got married. He had a Heaven experience. He got to walk the streets of gold with Jesus. He saw his parents. Jesus showed him different things. At the end of their time together, Jesus turned to Bill and said, “Do you want to stay or do you want to go back to Karen?” And Bill said, “We've only been married a short time. I want to go back to Karen because it wouldn't be fair.” He came back and lived another 4 years and 4 days. He was to me everything the Lord said my husband would be.

Dennis – How long were you married?

Karen - We were married just 5 years, 5 months and 25 days.

Question 3: Dennis – So, we are talking about major shifts that have happened in your life. That's what you’re describing. In your life, you have to have made some major shifts. Can you recall any one such shifting in which you were challenged to change your whole way of thinking and some area of prejudice? Peter had a prejudice toward Gentiles, Paul toward Christians and a belief in God as judgmental and not forgiving, and Jonah hated the Ninevites. At times, we are even challenged about our preconceived ideas about God Himself and He challenges on those at times too. Has He ever done so with you?

Karen - I think my biggest challenge was a people group. I was raised to believe that people who don't work have little value. I was blessed with a job working for our county in the Welfare

Department. I got to know people on public assistance. I have such a profound respect for them now. Yes, there were some that would tell me I don't want to work. “I'm being supported by the government. I'm good with that.”

But there are others I met, nurses, lawyers, doctors, teachers, people that had a position of great respect in the community. For various reasons, they had lost their jobs, and ended up on public assistance. Many people were educated and experienced. My last 11 years working in Contra Costa County, I taught Life Skills and Employment Readiness Skills to hundreds of people. I often sat there thinking, this was an educated person. What do I have to teach them? After all I am only a high school graduate. But I made an effective difference in hundreds of lives. They also made a difference in me.

Dennis - God not only had it as a way for you to do something, but also as a way to transform you from the inside out. He did it by bringing you face to face with your inner prejudice and having you work with those same people daily.

Karen – Absolutely!

Dennis – Like a springboard to how to open up and care for people?

Karen - Yes!

Question 4: Dennis - Wow, thank you for sharing. Next question is a little bit of a shift. If you consider the greatest desires of your innermost heart for your life both personally and in ministry, can you describe how God has revealed to you that He is now and has been “for you” to bring all those desires to fulfillment with you?

Karen - Every bit of my life crumbled when Bill passed away. He was sick but his pulmonologist said that we would know when the time was getting near because he would be in the hospital a lot.

He hadn't been in the hospital for a while. In fact, we were moving, I had retired, and we had sold our home. We were closing on the house we were buying in Paradise. We were excited about getting up here and starting a whole new life together. And suddenly he became very ill.

Dennis – You were finally moving into your new home in this town of Paradise, with a husband you waited 17 years for?

Karen – Yes in Paradise.

Dennis – Then you've waited another 5 years. Struggled through many health issues with him, and you’re just ready to close on your new home, retirement and all of this, and actually be living in Paradise. What a story.

Karen – He became sick the evening of January 25th, 2015. We had run all our errands, and we were packing the bulk of the day. That night, 2 hours after he had gone to bed, he had a hard time breathing. He was really struggling.

Dennis - Wow it just came on suddenly?

Karen – Yes it came on so quickly. I said, “Go sleep on the recliner, sitting up and we will see how you feel in the morning.'

We went to the hospital in the morning at 7. By 7:30 the doctor came into the room and said, “You're dying and there is nothing we can do to stop it.” He had developed a sepsis infection, and pneumonia in the right lung, fully involved. They told us he had hours to live, but he lived 6 days.

Dennis - I thought you told me that he had struggled for the last few years, and that he was in and out of the hospital.

Karen – Yes but not for the last 5 months. Fifteen months after we were married, he had gotten the flu from one of our grandchildren. We went to the doctors who said if you’re not better by the end of the week, go to the hospital.

On Sunday, January 30th, 2011, he was diagnosed with the flu. Three large blood clots in his lungs, congestive heart failure, kidneys and liver were in distress, and emphysema. So the last 4 years of our marriage, he had multiple problems with multiple hospital visits. But the last 5 months he was alive were much better. We were hopeful.

Dennis - This all began a year and a half into your marriage? Then four years of hospitals, then six months of peace and hope for a future. Then suddenly within a week he died and you moved into your new home that was to be this special place for the both of you. That's pretty severe.

Karen – Yes, the kidney and liver recovered, the congestive heart failure of course doesn't go away, the lung problems, the blood clots, and the emphysema. That never goes away. But he maintained a fair semblance of health, especially during the last five months.

He had had bronchitis once and pneumonia several times, but it was a day or two in the hospital, then home again. In May of 2014, he broke his hip. He was hospitalized with reconstructive surgery. In June had a partial hip replacement. And that's when I retired, so I could stay home and take care of him. Eight months later he's gone.

Dennis – So, you've retired, you got your home, everything you could possibly do, and now you’re alone.

Karen – Yes, He died February 3rd, we closed escrow in Fairfield on the 6th, closed escrow in Paradise on the 9th and I had to move on the 14th. So, everything, the home I had lived in for 29 years, my job of 26 years, moving to a brand-new community, and losing my husband.

I wanted to die. Literally, there were many times when I refused to leave the home and drive my car. You see, in Paradise we’re in the Sierra Foothills. There are mountain ranges, there are cliffs, and there are big rigs. I was very tempted a few times to take my own life. But I just couldn't you know. Instead, I grew closer to the Lord. I cried out to God to take away the pain, to help me get through this. And he did.

Question 5: Dennis - How has God used your weakness in your life to empower His work or presence in your life or ministry?

Karen - Oh, my goodness, oh my goodness, yes! A month before Bill passed away, we were at his sister’s church. While there I was given a prophetic word, that my new home would be used as a refuge, a place of ministry and a place of restoration. He was also told that his daughters, who he was estranged from, would be restored to him. His oldest daughter came to the hospital before he passed and his youngest daughter came to his services. So, that prophecy was fulfilled.

I tucked it away in my heart. One day my husband says “We're going to have some bible studies at the house,” He was all excited about doing stuff.

I moved to Paradise in February. In October, my Pastor's wife calls me and said she wants to start an Overcomer's Support Group for women that have gone through traumatic experiences. And the Lord told her that I was to be one of the women in the group. I said, “Ok, I'll join. No problem.” A week later she calls and says she’s been praying about where to have it and “God told me to ask you.” And I said, “Absolutely.” She said, “I want you to pray about it.” I said, “I don't have to. The Lord has already told me I would have a place of refuge, a place of recovery and restoration.”

Dennis – A group that’s called Overcomer's?

Karen - She calls it the Overcomers Support Group. We call it 'The Girls, getting together'. We get together twice a month. We started going through a Beth Moore study about overcoming called ‘Sacred Secrets.’ It’s about rebuilding faith in ourselves and in God. So, that is happening in my home. Currently we are working through Joyce Myers’ 'Battlefield of the Mind'. Within our group of these eight women, they have gone through; children on drugs, divorce, abuse, sexual abuse, and loss of loved ones. Every single one of these issues these eight women are going through, I have already lived through.

Dennis – These are the women that call you now?

Karen - Yes, at first it was like, I was overwhelmed with, “Man, I've had a messed up life.” Then, all the sudden, I have eight women going through these same things that I have gone through, each one of their issues. But then it was like, something shifted inside me and I realized, “But Karen, you've gone through.” And how much better for me to be able to speak into the lives of these women.

Dennis – As an overcomer, as only you could.

Karen – Yes. The Lord told me years ago, that he would use the things that I had gone through to help others. And I so clearly see that. It's

…It's exciting to help somebody else overcome.

empowering. I am not ashamed of my past. I could be, but it's exciting to help somebody else overcome.

Question 6: Dennis - I think you're right where God wants you to be. So, tell me, what does the phrase, The Kingdom of God mean to you today?

Karen - Oh my goodness. Before Bill's death, I would not have been able to answer that. Today the Kingdom of God is, love, support, encouragement, refuge, safety. It’s home.

Dennis - So to you, in your thinking, the Kingdom of God is an internal thing?

Karen - Because of everything that I have gone through in life. Those feelings like I belong, feeling loved and accepted, feeling a part of something, it just wasn't there. But after being loved by Bill the way I was, and his showing me a greater love with God, and his sharing his heaven experience with me, it has made a profound difference in my life.

Dennis - Now when was the near death experience he had?

Karen - It was on January 30, 2011, the first hospitalization after we were married.

Dennis - Did he actually die?

Karen - He did not die. It was an out of body experience. It was about 3 o'clock in the morning. The nurse had come in to check on him and I believe to give him some medication. He was in ICU and she could not rouse him. She was shaking him, “Mr. Crook, Mr. Crook, Bill wake up.” She could not get a response out of him.

Dennis - So she calls a code?

Karen - She did not call a code, but for about 20 minutes she just kept trying to wake him. And it was after Jesus asked Bill if he wanted to stay or come back to me, and he said, “I want to go back to Karen” that he responded to her and woke up.

Dennis – It was about 20 minutes then?

Karen - He was finally able to respond.

Dennis – Incredible. Do you see God's hand in all of this?

Karen – Yes.

Dennis - What is God going to do with you next?

Karen - I'm excited!

Dennis - I think I would be too.

Question 7: Dennis - How do you see it differently than when you first started walking with the Lord?

Karen - Like I said earlier, before Bill's death, I would not even have been able to answer that.

Now, it's the people. With all of the recovery I've done, it's the people. It's reaching up to the Lord. I used to teach my classes that a balanced life is not as you would walk on a balance beam, or a tightrope, putting your arms straight across from you. It's one reaching up. For me it's reaching to

A balanced life is… reaching to God, to learn more and get more, and get closer to him. But, it’s also reaching down to pull somebody up with me. That's the Kingdom. God, to learn more and get more, and get closer to him. But, it’s also reaching down to

pull somebody up with me. That's the

Kingdom. It is one getting others into liking themselves, loving themselves, accepting themselves, but not wanting to stay stuck in their muck. It’s moving forward.

It all begins with an idea.

It all begins with an idea.